Case Study Recording & Transcript: Seattle Alternative Allergy Treatment—Hypnotherapy & NLP
Seattle Alternative Allergy Treatment—READ & HEAR case study of with hypnotherapy & NLP—transcript and recording of session that eliminated the client’s allergy symptoms.
A Complete Allergy Treatment Session
and Telephone Follow Up
By Kelly Gerling, Ph.D., and William L. Mundy M.D.
This tape is a single session between a patient named Kay and two doctors—William “Bill” Mundy, M.D. and Kelly Patrick Gerling, Ph.D.
It demonstates how symptoms of allergies can be reduced, relieved, and even eliminated through hypnotherapy and NLP.
Dr. Mundy retired recently. Dr. Gerling still practices and can be reached through his website at kellygerling.com
The client, Kay, is a 53 year-old woman with simple allergies to dust and mold.
The session has four parts:
- Part One: Introduction and Diagnostic Information Gathering
- Part Two: Mobilizing Beliefs through Understanding Immunity
- Part Three: Guided Visual Imagery for Re-coding the Immune System
- Part Four: Recorded Follow Up Telephone Interview 10 Weeks Later
Here is a player that plays the sound recording of the session and follow up telephone interview:
Audio Recording Player
I put the player on this page so that you could listen to the sound recording, and read the transcript, at the same time, in the same window.
Part One: Introduction and Diagnostic Information Gathering
William Mundy M.D.—“Bill”: We'll make a copy of the tape for you so that you'll know what we have and hopefully, it was something that was beneficial and adequate for other therapists, because this is a rather new approach and if it was something appropriate for other therapists, it's desirable for them to listen to and learn, and we would like to use it for that.
The Client—“Kay”: Sure.
Bill: Okay, good. Have you turned it on?
Kelly Gerling Ph.D.—“Kelly”: It's on.
Bill: All right!
Kelly: We're rolling.
Kelly: Are you finished with our little sheet there?
Kelly: You can do it later.
Bill: We've been interested, as you know, for quite some time, in mind/body relationships. And there's a whole new field of psycho-neuro immunology that's come around in perhaps the last two decades, and more especially during the '80's. And national and international organizations are now studying the relationships and finding out, as you read in the literature, some fascinating things. Most other cultures—perhaps not American scientists, who have to see things change color in a test tube—but other parts of the world, and some of us here, have been fully aware that the relationship between mind and body is so close that remarkable results are obtained on actually altering not only the function of the body but sometimes even the change in anatomical parts. For instance you might understand that you heal your own ulcer. You're responsible for getting it; at the same time you can heal it, and lots of people have complete healing and never took a Tums (an antacid).
Bill: So there are many things that occur that you say, "Well, I don't know why it just went away." But something went on in your mind and your thought and you feeling processes so that your internal behavior changed. And often times this can be even in your unconscious. In this case that we're doing here, we want you to realize that it is in your conscious awareness and that we are helping you to establish a voluntary control over what you have considered involuntary in the past.
Bill: That's it in a nutshell. If you have other questions, or we may think of other ways to summarize the approach. Now, as you read, the interesting peptide receptors that are on the immune system cells, on the white blood cells—and there are many different types of them—if you want to just lump them all and imagine as you read, I imagine you might have some picture of what a cell looked like, and we actually have microphotography of single cells in action. So we know that the immune system is there to take good care of you and that it is altered by a number of things that happen to you, not only in your outside environment and your response to it, but how you think inside of your head, even. Maybe you remember sometimes when you got up and just felt so strong and you could do anything.
Kay: That's a very dim memory.
Bill: Is that a dim memory? But there are times when you were going on a trip, for instance, on a pleasure venture, that a few hours of sleep was enough. Other times if the day didn't have something in it that was exciting and invigorating for you, you might have had a full eight or nine hours sleep and just drag through the day.
Bill: Well, you wonder how come that your body responds this way? We're finding out now the exact methods by which the body responds to the mind's requests, if you want to think of it that way, even though the requests may be not a voluntary thought, but an out-of-awareness response of your whole physiology, in order to have mind and body work together. Now I suppose that over the years you've wondered something about allergies. Since you read the literature that Kelly and I sent you, you may have had some other interesting ideas. So would you give us a little idea about your allergy that you're interested in dealing with, and some of the history on it, recent and past?
Kay: Well I think I got this about five years ago. I didn't have allergies before, and I think it's a boring thing for people to have and it's what I get for not having any sympathy for people that have it.
Bill: So you're angry at it.
Kay: Huh? Well, I don't know, yeah.
Bill: I guess if you're bored at it, you're angry at it.
Kay: Boredom and anger . . . ?
Bill: Well you wouldn't find it in the "joy book."
Kay: No, that's true.
Bill: How old are you?
Kay: I'm 53.
Bill: Fifty-three. So you got it at about 48. All right, tell us what happened.
Kay: Well, I didn't know I had it. I just began to feel worse and worse, all the time, and I was starting to exercise and I was beginning to run, and whenever I would get back my nose would be running and it got to where I had to take a hanky because my nose would just run all over the place.
Kelly: And what were you allergic to?
Kay: I . . . to dust and mold—both. Anyway, I had, I got sinus infections that wouldn't go away, and the doctor recommended that I see an allergist, so I did, and they did the patch test, and it showed dust and mold.
Kelly: No pollen?
Bill: And what kind of therapy have you had?
Kay: I had shots, I went for shots twice a week until I got . . . my husband had developed it the same (way), also, and so we were both going for shots. He didn't want to go, but he had dark circles under his eyes like people get who have allergies, and I said, "You need to go have the test." He said, "I'm sure that everyone that leaves that office tests positive for allergies." (laughter)
Bill: Well, it is possible, because you can have skin tests positive and have no symptoms, so that possibility does exist, yes.
Kay: Well anyway, we were both having shots twice a week and so we got to the point that you can assume responsibility for ‘em yourself. Then I was giving the shots, I guess, once a week then. And after two years of it, he said, "I don't feel any different if I have my shot or not."
Bill: How about you?
Kay: And I decided I wasn't sure if I felt any different either, so we both quit taking them and we don’t seem to be any worse for not having them.
Bill: Okay, but you’re still bothered.
Kay: Oh yeah.
Kelly: How about right this instant?
Kay: Right this instant?
Kelly: [Do you] feel fine right now, no symptoms?
Kay: Not right now.
Kelly: Yeah, you look fine. Okay. You sound like you're not stopped up or anything.
Kay: No, but it is . . . in the night, I'm awakened because I can't breathe.
Bill: And your nasal membrane is congested?
Kay: Yes. And I use . . . have medication . . . I have this um, oh what is it? It's a relatively new thing for nose sprays . . .
Bill: Nasalide? Is it some kind of nasal spray, then?
Bill: Nasalchrom. It's a chromolate, yes. Do you use that each day?
Kay: Three times.
Bill: Three times a day. And has it irritated your mucous membrane at all?
Kay: No, it helps a lot.
Bill: Good. Okay.
Kay: Also, and when it’s bad, my vision blurs, it's hard to . . .
Bill: Your eyes swell up?
Kay: Well, they don't appear to be swollen, but I can't see without glasses on. I mean to read.
Bill: I see. So do they water?
Kay: Not usually. Just in the early spring.
Bill: Interesting. So you say they blur, so it changes your reading ability?
Kay: Yes. I think my brain swells and it does something to my vision. I'm serious.
Bill: Yes, I imagine it does feel like that.
Kelly: And are you aware in any objective sense like if there's more dust, like you see more dust . . . ?
Kay: I can't tell from dust . . .
Kelly: or mold?
Kay: Or mold. In the flower bed, if I go out poking in the flower bed, there . . . I have to lay down when I come in the house.
Bill: Yes. Okay, so it's a . . .
Kay: So I don't go outside any more.
Bill: So it's a constant bother to you.
Kay: No, no. It's not as bad as it used to be.
Kay: Not as bad as it used to be, but still it's certainly a weekly and almost a daily routine sometimes.
Kay: Well, yeah. An aggravation.
Bill: An aggravation.
Part Two: Mobilizing Beliefs Through Understanding Immunity
Bill: Now as you read in the literature and suggested by a doctor named Robert Dilts with some co-workers. Dilts was informed by a gentleman that he was learning from that there was a possibility that the allergy that he was dealing with at the time was kind of a phobia of the immune system. And what an interesting thought! So he took that thought and said, "My goodness, if it's a phobia, that might explain how sometimes people get over it who don't have desensitization—who don't have shots, and sometimes during the course of therapy for something entirely different people get over their allergies." And I've had that experience for many years, especially in the group therapies that we've run for the last 20-plus years.
Bill: People will begin to deal with emotional issues, and after generally about eight weeks, when they're asked what happened to their symptoms, they haven't had them, and without even dealing with them directly, the symptoms have disappeared. Now this is a kind of an around-the-corner way of doing the same thing. But the method that we find so effective and quickly helpful is one that is much more direct, where you, as you are now, are going to deal directly between your thoughts, your visual image, and your immune system.
Kelly: In these other cases, it's as though the immune system got the message. Something like,"Allergy, be gone." And it just got that message. And this method that we're going to do, we're going to be able to convey that kind of message in a very positive way directly, rather than indirectly.
Kay: That's fine with me.
Bill: It seems that allergies occur rather commonly when a person is dealing with a virus kind of infection, such as colds, or bronchitis, or sore throats and things like that, or perhaps a bacterial infection in which you would have sinusitis, or something in that order. And the immune system, as you know, is meant to help you counteract the effects of the virus and the bacteria. So think of those as harmful organisms. Now as you read, the immune system is capable of making a kind of marker. It's as if it had a key, and when a harmful organism comes in along your blood stream, a certain kind of white blood cell comes forth and is sensitized to make a kind of key which is an antibody.
Kay: Oh yeah, that was in the film.
Bill: That's right! Remember how that key works? So that key is formed by your system, by your immune system, over about a five-day period. And by the end of a couple of weeks your body has so many—your whole system has so many—antibodies that key to the harmful organism, that if that organism appears again, or even at the time that it's still there, your system is alerted, for all the cells that are important, to go in and fight and destroy that particular harmful organism. It works best on bacteria, less well, as you probably know, on viruses. Now, what if, along with the harmful organism, during that same period of a few days or a week, or whatever—you're dealing with an infection—what if along came perfectly normal occurring things that are always in your environment, and happen to be floating through your bloodstream, as inhaled through your lungs and transferred to your bloodstream . . . what if they were along with the harmful organisms? The immune system says, "Wow! Here's this organism which I know for sure I ought to put a key on and form an antibody and get ready for business. Now what I'd like to do is not make any mistakes, so what I'll do is err on the side of caution . . .”
Bill: “. . . and I will make an antibody which will take care of whatever's floating through." And I use the germ in the article that “the immune system makes a mistake and doesn't know the difference between a terrorist and a tourist.” So what it does is consider the same thing coming through again as a harmful invader and rushes out, and the reaction you have—that you feel through your system—is the immune response to the invader—to the supposed harmful thing, which actually is a perfectly naturally occurring thing in your environment, and mine and Kelly's and everybody else's all along. That make sense?
Kay: Yes. But your approach is a positive one. I mean, that the immune system is like overreacting.
Bill: That's right.
Kay: The things I have read say it is a failure of the immune system.
Bill: Not true. It's actually taking the best care of you that it knows how, in all these five years, it's been doing what it was meant to do for invaders, except that the so-called invader is simply there as a perfectly harmless particle—microscopic—of no harm to you. And you were around dust and molds all of your 48 years before you got your allergy.
Kay: So you can see that your immune system must be failing! That’s what I read.
Bill: That's what they sometimes think and news media would put it out that way, but think about it this way . . .
Kay: Well already I’m happy to know . . .
Bill: . . . which works out fine.
Kelly: You're not the "Bubble Boy."
Kelly: You're still alive. With a failing immune system, you'd die within a week.
Kelly: The thing is, you know, if a dog gets an infection—typically the dog or cat won't eat. They kind of go off by themselves for a while and I think there's some wisdom in that. If you eat and have an infection you run the risk of an association between the organism that you're fighting off and the food that you're eating—so that would be a food allergy.
Kelly: If you get an infection—the flu or a cold—and go dig in the garden and the dust in the garden becomes something that the immune system can confuse with the virus it's trying to fight.
Kay: That makes sense.
Kelly: So the best thing to do when we get sick is to rest and drink water.
Kay: And make people leave us alone.
Kelly: Yes. That's it. And I think that's what animals do a lot—they rest, they drink water, they don't eat—until the infection is gone. They'll lose weight, but they know they can gain it back. And it may be that you had a cold . . . or sore throat . . . and worked in the garden, and tthere was dust and mold one day five years ago. Your immune system—not because it was failing, but because it was working extra well, it was very cautious—sensed the dust and mold along with the bacteria, and it thought, "Hmmm. I can't tell the difference. I'm not sure. I think I'll just go ahead and key my antibodies to the dust and mold along with the bacteria or virus and that'll make sure she lives."
Bill: Some interesting work has been done on how the mind communicates best with the immune system cells. Do you remember in school reading about Pavlov's dog?
Kay: Oh, yes.
Bill: Okay. Now, the dog got used to having a bell rung when it got fed, so it had a sensation of hunger and when it heard the bell, and food was presented it, it's stomach began to act didn’t it. It had an internal behavior. Then they didn't bring the food, rang the bell and the stomach still reacted—as if the food were present to be digested. So the dog had an auditory signal, didn't it?
Bill: Now, to a lot of different persons who have dealt with allergies—and especially true of visual imagery and people who do different kinds of psychotherapy—we've found that the immune system communicates best with you visually rather than auditorally. Its language is not in words, although I'm not so sure it couldn't be bell ringing, but we've found that the visual image seems to be best conveyed to the cells that have the same peptide receptors as the brain cells. So we want you to imagine some visual imagery here.
Part Three: Guided Visual Imagery for Re-coding the Immune System
Kelly: One of the things to . . . just as kind of a background way to think about this . . . is, really the dust and the mold are tourists, like we've been saying. They're not the problem. Bacteria and viruses, those are the real . . . they can reproduce inside ourselves. Dust can't reproduce itself. Mold can't reproduce itself. Not in our body. It can in the soil, not really in our body. If you imagine that your immune system's like a guard dog in a house. It's trained to find and eat up the burglars. If somebody comes through the house in the middle of the night dressed in black, with a little suitcase, and a ski mask over his head, and comes in the back window, then the guard dog is really going to know what to do. And it's right in the middle of the burglary, our guard dog is barking. Well, the neighbor hears the ruckus and comes over and knocks on the front door, and it's open and comes right in. Well, we can hardly blame the guard dog if it attacked the neighbor right in the middle of that.
Kelly: Because it's all worked up. It knows the problem. And that's a little bit like what happens. It's just bad timing on the part of the dust and the mold. The dust and the mold are like your neighbor that came over to see what was going on. No big difficulty. And so part of the imagery then, with that feeling toward the dust and the mold, is, "Well, there's been a case of mistaken identity." Part of what we want to imagine then, is we want to picture the dust as a certain kind of color and a certain kind of shape. So if you see a cloud of dust, very dilute, like the wind blows a little dust, or you're dusting in the house a little bit, there's a little dust, or somebody steps on the carpet, and some dust comes up.
Bill: You can't see it. Could you imagine the color? Just in your mind, now.
Kelly: Yes. If you could see . . .
Bill: Could you imagine and tell us what color the dust and the mold might be? Since they are sort of aerosol products in the air, aren't they? It's as if you can see spray paint sometimes, which are large aerosol droplets. The dust and the mold are very fine. You can't see them. But could you just imagine and tell us what color you think those might be?
Kelly: And then if you were to zoom in with a microscopic lens on a dust particle, then what would be its shape?
Kay: What shape is dust? Oh.
Kelly: It's not important to get it right. It's important to pick a shape. . .
Bill: . . . it’s just for you to have a visual image of your concept. It doesn't have to be exactly as it might look under a microscope.
Kelly: It might have varying shapes.
Kay: They're both going to have one, aren't they? Dust and mold both?
Kelly: They'll have different shapes.
Kay: Yes. They have to be different.
Kay: Okay. Well, dust is round and mold is hexagon.
Kelly: Okay. And then the color of a cloud of mold particles?
Kelly: Gray. And so the dust? You might want to have a different color for the two.
Kay: Dust is a real brown—a brownish color.
Kelly: Okay. So then, I think one of the things to think of, is really what's going on. Because what's going on is you have a tourist, you have a friendly neighbor, which is dust and mold, in the air, and you breathe this in and it enters your bloodstream. That's the situation. You are around a lot of situations where you breathe something in that has small particles and it enters your bloodstream and you have a fine reaction to it.
Kay: Or not at all, which is even better.
Kelly: Well, that's what I mean . . .
Bill: . . . a normal and healthy . . .
Kelly: . . . a normal and healthy response. What we mean, is, it goes into your bloodstream and in a very passive, easy way, your system cleans it up.
Kay: Uh, huh.
Bill: We have a filtering system within our bloodstream which takes care of that. It's just as if things were to run down your street and there are certain areas there—a screen around in the guttering takes it away. And it goes off and you don't even know it was there. . .
Kay: Like in the film, it would go in and out.
Bill: That's the ticket.
Kelly: And they can kind of clean everything up.
Bill: Passively done.
Kelly: There's no big mobilization . . .
Bill: You don’t need antibodies for that.
Kelly: No. It's very, very passive, and to a certain extent lymph nodes and kidneys can also filter some of these things out, too.
Bill: So what would you imagine where you could be in your recent past or distant past where taking a nice breath in is something that is pleasurable to you?
Kelly: When there are particles of some kind in the air, be it ocean mist, perfume . . .
Bill: . . . pine trees in the mountains, lakes . . .
Kelly: . . . pollen that smells good . . .
Bill: . . . flowers, perfume. What do you like?
Kay: Oh, the ocean.
Bill: The ocean, fine.
Kelly: So the mist along the beach?
Kelly: Okay. You can smell it, the salt water smell. And there are lots of particles that you're breathing in.
Kay: Oh, and they're probably nasty, too, but you don't know . . .
Bill: Look, when you say "nasty" they're probably naturally occurring, which they are, and they simply have an odor so that you know that there's a particle there even though it's invisible and you breathe, and you feel good, and you enjoy the ocean mist.
Kay: Uh, huh.
Kelly: And throughout our body there are organisms. Bacteria are what help us digest things. That's just a natural part of it. So there are bacteria, certain kinds, in sea mist and lots of different particles of salt and seaweed. Well, it's fine. They're just tourists.
Kelly: Come through and observe and then go on their way. And that's the kind of thing that we can think of. And as you think of ocean mist along the beach, what would be the color of that mist?
Kelly: Blue. Okay. And if you zoom in on it, what would the particles look like?
Kay: Particles of mist.
Kelly: The particles which are in the liquid mist.
Kay: Well, they're tear shaped.
Bill: Okay. That's the way I think of it!
Kelly: Okay, it's just like a droplet.
Kelly: Okay, it's like a droplet. And so now one of the things that you can do is picture yourself by the beach . . . some distance away . . . and watch yourself breathing that blue mist.
Bill: Maybe look on the back of your eyelids and see if you can image a scene of you being on the shore enjoying yourself on a nice day, and inhaling the ocean mist in such a pleasurable way. Let yourself visually image that. If you want to, you can do it with your eyes open. Some people do it best if they let their eyes shut, and just imagine themselves being there.
(Pause about 20 seconds)
Bill: Feels good to me already. That wasn't too hard to recall, was it?
Kelly: And one thing you can do with that is to go back to that image and put on your sort of x-ray zoom lens, sort of visual special effects, and look into her body, and watch her breathe the mist in and watch it go into her body and watch the immune system very nicely, very passively, with no visual sort of symptoms, or anything like that, very comfortably, begin to filter those particles out.
Bill: Just imagine that you're looking inside like the pictures that you saw.
Kay: Okay. I'm watching me.
Kelly: Right. From some distance, maybe a few feet away.
(Pause for about 20 seconds)
Kay: Yes, I'm having fun.
Kay: Walking on the beach.
Kelly: And can you see how the immune system and the other systems can very easily filter those particles that might be in that ocean mist?
Kay: Yes. Good job. They take care of me.
Kelly: And how's she look on the outside? How's she breathing?
Kay: Deeply. She's running along there.
Kay: Walking. It's hard to walk in the sand.
Bill: All right. Now let's extend that visual imagery into a different scene and Kelly will describe a little something we want you to look through.
Kelly: Yeah. And what you can do is, whichever way you look, you might want to look that way over there, (gesturing) and picture a big sheet of Plexiglas, even like here in the room and you would be seeing yourself on the other side of the Plexiglas—very isolated in terms of the air from what is happening over there. . .
Bill: As if you were over here.
Kay: Uh, huh.
Kelly: And looking through that big sheet of Plexiglas, is Kay on the other side. And you can put her in any kind of scene or on any stage you want, and what we'd like to do is have youstart looking at her, on the beach, finding it difficult to walk, running perhaps, with that ocean mist around her, and her breathing it in, really having a good time, and responding very healthily, very naturally . . . to that mist . . . okay.
Kelly: And then very slowly, if you look at that, change the scene to another scene where first there will be some dust—very slight, small quantities that are barely visible—that certain color the dust looks like, from a distance.
Kelly: When it's in the air. Yes. And watch that dust, watch her breathe, and in order to send a message to the immune system which is very precise, watch her breathe the dust and maintain her natural, healthy response to the dust, first of all.The same response that she had to the ocean mist—you now maintained as she breathes the dust.
Kay: Uh, huh.
Kelly: And that is a very clear message that you're sending to your immune system, that image. And then, zoom in on her body and on the dust. See the particle, and another particle, and another particle, and then as you do that, watch her immune system respond in that very nice, natural way, in the same way that her immune system responded to the mist, to the dust. The same way she did six years ago, seven years ago, to dust, you're now picturing her responding to that dust.And then in your image, make sure she has some sort of hanky with her, some sort of cloth.
Kay: What for?
Kelly: In case there was too much dust. [Anticipating that in her future she may encounter too many particles to be comfortable, and suggesting a means of protection even though her allergic response goes away.]
Bill: It would be wise, if you were out in a plowed field, and a farmer was just doing a dry field, for you or I, or anyone, to have so much mechanical imposition of particles in such quantities of any sort, that you just couldn't expect the mucous membrane to do well with it.
Kelly: Or the body to want to filter out that much.
Bill: You wouldn't want to get into one of those little whirly things in the prairie . . .
Kay: Oh, well it's not that kind of dust. It's house dust.
Bill: That's right. Well, if you were to see that kind of thing, you need to know that you have certain sensible precautions, and sensible limits that you wouldn't expect yourself not to take care of you.
Kay: Oh, I see.
Bill: You’d put a handkerchief over your nose. You'd take care of that kind of thing.
Kelly: And what seeing her with a handkerchief does, is it sends a message to your immune system that a certain amount of dust is fine and you'd like the immune system to respond very naturally to that. And if it becomes so much dust that there might be a sneeze warning from the immune system, then you would have a handkerchief to cover, just in case it's too much. Same way with mold. Same way when I worked in a grain company shoveling soybeans and corn . . .
Kay: Uh, huh.
Kelly: . . . and was around equipment that was moving around. And there was so much dust we had to put coverings over here (gesturing to face)—masks and goggles and that kind of stuff.
Bill: You don't want to overload any system of your body.
Kelly: So give her, in the image, a handkerchief, and then perhaps consider the commitment that if she would ever sneeze, or otherwise feel irritated from the dust—not in an allergic way certainly—but in a way that indicates the concentration is more than is reasonable, then she can simply take out that hanky and protect her self in terms of what she's breathing. Just as a precaution. Good. Very good. And then that shows a certain respect for the sneeze response, which is usually a response that it's a little too much. So how does it feel in your body as you look at how she's responding over there?
Kelly: Yeah. So that's the signal from your inner wisdom, from your involuntary mind, that the image you're seeing is being accepted over here, at least from this point of view. So one of the things you can do is, at this point, get up, and actually sit over there on the couch and be in that scene with that household dust, go through the Plexiglas, and go through the same experience from the inside this time.
Bill: Pretend that you sort of meld into the image that you had. What it does is give you what we call "an enactment" and you're assuming the role. So if you actually get up from this chair and sit over here, just take the Plexiglas away, go right over here, and meld in with the image that you had.
Kelly: Almost like you run the tape back to the beginning and step in and go through it again.
Bill: You're now becoming the image that you saw.
Kelly: You might first be on the beach . . . breathing the ocean mist . . . enjoying it. And then switching the scene, where there is some dust, you have your hanky with you, breathing in the small quantities of dust in that situation, and noticing that you respond the same way you pictured yourself this time.
Bill: In a healthy, normal, comfortable way for all of your breathing and physiologies to function—recognizing the normalcy of those naturally occurring products that are in our environment at all times.
Kelly: How does that feel?
Kelly: Good. Okay.That's the message you want. So then now we come back, and this time we essentially do the same process with the mold.
Bill: This time we're going to see the gray, with the hexagons.
Kay: Uh, huh. Yes.
Bill: So put up
Kelly: . . . the Plexiglas. Take a look at her in another situation, or in the same situation, a situation in any case, where there will be some mold and watch her interact with the mold, watch her breathe some of the mold. Watch some of the mold enter her eyes in very, very small quantities through the air. Her nasal passages. And watch her response maintain itself as the same type of response when she was on the beach. Very healthy, very natural. Notice she has her hanky with her out of respect for the immune system. And then freely examine, with your zoom lens of perception, the particles of the mold, and the inner workings of her immune system as it so nicely takes care of that mold.
(Pause about 10 seconds)
Kelly: And when you're quite satisfied with the details of the images you're observing—then just nod your head and let us know.
(Pause of about three seconds)
Kelly: Okay. So then as you look, kind of run the tape back to the beginning . . .
Bill: Take the Plexiglas away.
Kelly: . . . It’s now scene one, act one. Step over and become the actress in the situation.
Kelly: Go through it again, the same way you saw it from over there, (gesturing) and enjoy that response. And also monitor your own feelings to make sure that the message you're getting from your inner wisdom is that this new response that you're choosing, that you're experiencing, is completely acceptable.
(Pause for about 30 seconds)
Kelly: Knowing all the while that if the concentration of molds were to ever reach a level which was too high for your system to comfortably deal with, you'd get a signal of some kind—a slight sneeze, a cough—which would indicate it was time to take out your hanky and perhaps leave the situation momentarily or somehow calm things down, much the same way you would if you were spray painting in an enclosed, small room. You would want to take precautions.
Bill: We had one client that told us that old books in a musty basement, for instance, were overpowering for her. Now it would be highly unusual to be in an environment like that, but certainly I could imagine that if you were examining an area that had been flooded for 2 or 3 weeks, that such a thing might occur. It would just be sensible to take a little extra precaution because there's no reason to overload your system. Make sense?
Kelly: Good. Okay. So come on back and at this point observe yourself. Observe Kay in the situations in the future where she will be encountering some quantities of dust and mold. And as you watch her encountering those and see her responding in the same way you've just experienced both outside and in, then notice how you feel about her as you watch her responding in that healthy way. See if your feelings here, as you look into your future, are congruent and give you the indication that this is what's going to happen.
Bill: With the good feelings that you've had here at this time.
Kelly: So just picture a few of those situations in the future beyond these particular two. Ponder those situations. Watch her responding very, very healthily, naturally. Check to see if your inner wisdom indicates that it got the message and this is how it's going to be.
(Pause of about 20 seconds)
Kay: It helped.
Kelly: Good. Now, to get a contrast, you can watch yourself doing something in the future that you could do, but which is very dangerous. You pick it and tell us. But go ahead and see something in the future that you could do, that would be too dangerous for you to do, and check your feelings and notice what happens.
Kay: I don't even have that kind of imagination.
(Laughter by Bill and Kelly)
Bill: You don't want to think up anything that spooky!
Kelly: You know what would happen if you did, if you saw it.
Kelly: How would you feel looking at yourself doing something very dangerous?
Kay: I'd be frightened.
Kelly: Yeah. And those are the feelings that get you not to do that. And the feelings that youare having about seeing yourself responding this way to the dust and mold are the feelings that are letting you know—that's what you'll do.
Kay: Oh, you mean I would feel frightened if I wasn't (safe). . .
Kay: . . . with the confidence that I would feel this way.
Bill: Yes. Your body would have a feeling in response to your mind's eye.
Kay: Ah. Okay.
Kelly: And the mind's eye—what you put in the mind's eye during the daytime . . .
Kelly: . . . (is what you feel than and later in your body. This allows for monitoring and) . . . measuring the feelings you have about what you are picturing in your future or your past. Which is to know that involuntary, kind of, inner wisdom, and how it is indicating you’re to be responding to that—whether you should or shouldn’t, or however that will go.
Kelly: See, if you watch yourself, let’s say watch yourself in a situation, where there is a lot of dust, whatever that may be. Going through old books in a damp basement.
Kay: Ah huh.
Kelly: And clouds and clouds of mold and dust. And watch, as you look at that, and her breathing that, check your feelings . . . and then . . . change the picture . . . so it’s appropriate . . . and then your feelings will change back. Go ahead and take a look at that . . . just to kind of overdo it . . . and then use your feelings as a guide.
Kay: How it would feel to do, to expose myself to . . . ?
Kelly: To too much.
Bill: To great excess.
Kay: Too much.
Kelly: Does that feel uncomfortable?
Kay: Not when it’s books, because I do it for that.
Kelly: Okay, something that’s too much, yeah . . .
Kay: Okay. Behind the lawn mower . . .
Kelly: Okay. How does that feel?
Kay: Hot and sweaty! (Laughter)
Kelly: And then if you change the image . . . to what you would rather be doing . . . if it’s anything about the lawn mower, or not, just change the picture to where it’s acceptable to you. And then notice what happens here . . .
Kay: Yeah. I have. Certainly anyplace else is a more comfortable place to be.
Bill: You begin to feel comfortable in all of your normal physiology—your mucus membranes; your nasal; your throat; your eyes; your whole body; your system; your lungs—all feel normal and healthy.
Kelly: Because what we are doing here—really—is setting up a more cooperative relationship and better communication between what we could call the conscious mind, and the involuntary mind. And if there’s a good relationship between the two, well then the conscious mind knows how to communicate. In this case, we’ve used visualization, which was very precise, so as to let the immune system know, "Here's how we want you to respond, okay?” And the immune system gets the message, "Oh, I'm to uncode the antibodies that have been coded in the past for dust and mold, because that was just a cautious mistake. Thank you very much. With those pictures, I know how to do that now."
Kelly: And that's essentially what we've done. And if we were to summarize it, we've simply coached you in giving you a way of communicating in such a way that your immune system gets the message.
Bill: You've given visual instructions to your own system.
Kay: And you can generalize this and use this kind of method of visualizing, for other things as well. For continued health, for ways you want to feel in certain situations . . .
Kay: . . . energy?
Kelly: Watch yourself in a situation, feeling, see yourself energetic where you've been in the past, watch yourself in a new situation where you'd like that energy. Watch yourself experiencing the energy outwardly and inwardly. Step into the picture, rehearse it, make sure it feels good there—mentally—and then you're off and running, energetically.
Bill: If you've heard about sports psychology, the sports psychologists will have the athlete in his mind visualize pole vaulting a certain height 20 times—successful. He then goes out and actually, in reality, physically accomplishes what, theretofore, he'd not been able to do.
Kelly: And because the allergies will be no longer, because you'll now have a normal, healthy response to dust and mold, as your nervous system gets the message, then you'll gain confidence in your ability to use your conscious mind to give yourself more choices in terms of how you feel.
Bill: Yes. How's that?
Kelly: Hey, if you can change your whole system so that you're not allergic any more, you can do many, many other things with the same abilities that you're showing here. That's the whole point—it's to keep learning, to keep doing what you've done here with the allergies, in other areas of life that are even more important than the allergies. That’s how we can learn from this kind of process.
Bill: We would like you, over the next hours, into days, to go through this quickly in your mind as you recall the visual imagery and what you've done here—with the colors and the comfort and the ease of the breathing, and the feeling in your body in relationship to your visual image. Practice that, so that you become a good teacher with instruction that will be picked up constantly by the system so that it knows even better than just on this one trial, on this one learning experience.
Kelly: One of the things that happens is most of the time when people go through this process, their allergies go away within a week just having seen these pictures in their mind, and done this kind of communication. However, it's so easy to do that there's no reason not to continue to make this kind of imagery as a way to help you in this area and other areas as well. Does that make sense?
Kay: Yes it does. I've read about this, but not to do with allergies.
Bill: Well, you have some methodology here to be of great benefit to yourself in many ways.
Kelly: And you're really good at this, so I think that you can use this. It's a matter of, really, this is kind of like your mental software. You can run these programs in order to help generate change, and learning, new behavior, goals like more energy, stuff like that. I did this process with a young lady and she's 12, and she had had cat allergies for an awful long time. Now she has a cat.
Kay: Is that right?
Kelly: Yeah. And she said to me, she says, "Well, you know Kelly, what you did with my allergies, well one night I couldn't sleep, so I watched myself in the bed that I pictured falling asleep, and then I fell asleep!" (Laughter) So it's funny how it works.
Bill: Will you be in town next week?
Bill: Would you be able to give me a call here on Monday, and talk with me about the things that you've learned and your feelings?
Kay: And that's all there is to it?
Bill: Yes maam.
Kelly: That's it.
Kay: That's it?
Kelly: Yeah, and what we'd like to do, probably for the tape, and for your benefit, is when you've proven to yourself that really you've changed and these are no longer current issues, the allergies—then maybe we'll tape record that on the tape, do a final interview, which could even be over the phone or if you want to come in again, that would be good. And that would be kind of like our main follow-up.
Bill: We'd be glad to see you again.
Kay: And I can have energy?
Kelly: See, one of the things . . . why don't you mention about how the immune system, when it's dealing with lots of things it perceives as dangerous, saps the system's energy.
Kay: Well, I have experienced that. I can tell you all about that.
Bill: You already are aware.
Kelly: And so . . .
Bill: It's that excess energy that's being utilized by all of the immune system's cells . . .
Kay: To fight off the tourists, right?
Bill: . . . don't have to sap the energy of your body, because you can relax and filter out, rather than make an effort to counteract and to battle. There's no reason to do that. That takes energy.
Kay: Yes it does.
Bill: You don't need to do that.
Bill: You can have your energies for other things that you enjoy.
Kay: Good! I can stay up past 9:00 maybe? One of these days?
Bill: Yes, how's that?
Bill: Well, all right. I'll let you sit here for a moment and fill the rest of that out because Barbara keeps a record.
Part 4: Recorded Follow Up Telephone Interview 10 Weeks Later
The following taped interview occurs approximately 10 weeks after the initial session where we utilized the allergy process in order to treat her allergic response.
Kelly: All right, well, making the tape recording of this interview will help us share the kind of process that we went through with you, with other people.
Kelly: And so I guess if you were to see us on June 12, so that makes it a little over 2 1/2 months, being September 1, and I'd be interested in, just generally, what you remember from our interview when we took you through the allergy process and what's been happening since then.
Kay: Well, essentially, you mean you want me to tell you . . .
Kelly: Just a little bit about . . .
Kay: . . . what we did, or . . .
Kelly: Yeah. Just a little . . .
Kay: . . . or how I think it works?
Kelly: I think both. Maybe you could . . . what stood out for you about what we did, and then what has been the result since than.
Kay: All right. You had me to go to a place in my mind where it's beautiful, and I felt comfortable, and I chose the north shore of Oahu where I had been in the past and did not have allergy problems.
Kay: And so I visualized walking on the beach, where I felt healthy there and where I had enough energy to walk on the beach,
Kelly: Uh huh.
Kay: and recalled the mist that comes from the ocean. And for a few weeks after that I would visualize that I had brought the mist with me and I could breathe the mist and it would clear my nasal passages.
Kelly: Oh, that's creative. Okay.
Kay: Uh, huh. And you had me to put a shape to the mold and a shape to the dust and a color to it, which I did. And after our session, I put a shape and a color to the sunshine, which I feel as energy, and I call upon that sometimes. And essentially what you did was give me permission to not have allergies.
Kelly: Well, it takes your follow up to make it work, and I wonder now if you could just describe for this time a year, for the summer months, from mid-June through June, through July, through August now, you've had 2 1/2 months. What is the difference between how this summer has gone relative to your breathing and your comfort and how it's gone other summers recently?
Kay: This summer I have not been awakened because I could not breathe because my nose was stopped up.
Kelly: And other summers that happened . . .
Kay: Up to three times a night. It just irritates me to death.
Kelly: Almost every night?
Kay: Oh, yeah.
Kay: Oh, every night for sure, and sometimes more than once, and always in the morning—my nose would be all stopped up.
Kelly: And what time of year did that used to start?
Kay: It started in the winter about five years ago, and I had it year round ever since.
Kelly: Oh, year round. Okay, okay. And so that was the situation year round every night, at least when you're in Kansas City, and how was it when you weren't in Kansas City in other parts of the country, or the world, over the last five years, before this summer?
Kay: Well, the only other place I've . . . well, we went to Dallas over . . . it was fine in Dallas. The geographic things seems . . . south of Bartlesville I was better that time we went to Dallas for a weekend.
Kelly: Uh, hmm.
Kay: I haven't been anywhere else except my husband was working in Oahu. That's why I was there.
Kelly: And that was fine, too? How long ago were you in Oahu?
Kay: Three years.
Kelly: Okay, so that was a noted difference. Have you been tested—I forget . . .
Kelly: . . .by an allergist, as to your condition?
Kay: Uh, huh.
Kelly: And the results were . . .
Kay: Dust, house dust, dust mites, and mold.
Kelly: Uh, huh. Pretty definite result on that, yeah.
Kay: Uh, huh.
Kelly: Okay, and had you had allergy shots before?
Kay: I'd had them for about two years.
Kelly: And what was the response from those?
Kay: My husband and I both were having them and, in fact, I got to the point where I was giving them to both of us—because I was having them twice a week and he was having them once a week, and after two or three years, I'd get two at least, for sure, maybe three, he decided it wasn't doing him any good, and the doctor had told us in the beginning that it didn't always help everyone.
Kelly: Uh, huh, sure.
Kay: And I'd been taking them, too, and didn't notice any difference.
Kelly: No. You were still having problems?
Kay: Uh, huh.
Kelly: And so then between June 12 when we did this, were you better the first night?
Kay: My getting better was very gradual. In fact, I didn't see much difference for a couple of weeks, but then I began to feel better, and I stayed better. And I haven't had . . . sometimes I would have days that were so bad that I'd just want to stay in bed.
Kelly: This was before June 12.
Kay: Uh, huh. And sometimes on the weekend.
Kelly: And have you had any days like that?
Kay: No I haven't.
Kelly: No, since then. Well that's good news!
Kay: Well, it certainly is.
Kelly: Yeah. Well, I'm just glad that your ability that you've utilized to make this process work was so strong, and that you've stuck with it and made it work for yourself so well to help your immune system relearn a different response to those particles, which is the essence of it, of course.
Kay: It's just a fascinating thing that you've done . . .
Kay: . . . it really is.
Kelly: Well, Dr. Mundy and I were really happy to work with someone who so embraced the technique, so thoroughly and open-heartedly, in order to make it work. And you were certainly able to do that!
Kay: Do you see results every time?
Kelly: Results have been really good, and we find that it's a partnership between us demonstrating and offering a technique, and people having the willingness to believe in the possibility that it works, and applying it, and continuing the imagery, which seems to be really important to make it work.
Kay: Well, I just think it's wonderful. I can't tell you how happy I am.
Kelly: Well that's good!
Kay: Because it was such an aggravation! And another thing too, I don't think a lot of this medication is good for people to be having all the time.
Kelly: Uh, huh.
Kay: Like what . . . the antihistamines—constantly. And I was taking those all the time . . .
Kelly: And you're not taking those any more?
Kay: No, I'm not taking anything, but I take some Sudafed still, but I was able to quit using . . . the nasal spray hasn't been necessary, I haven't used it for a month. And it's like I have permission to not have that disease any more.
Kelly: Uh, huh. Yeah. Well, that's marvelous, it really is!
Kay: It really is!
Kelly: You can go on about your life and achieve those things that you're interested in without having to have this problem.
Kay: And not be suffering total fatigue all the time. I can stay up until 10-11:00 at night all the time.
Kelly: Oh, you've got more energy now?
Kelly: Yeah, yeah. Well, good. Well, you and your immune system are really good friends now. (Laughter.)
Kay: Well, I guess. (Laughter)
Kelly: And I hope that you're thanking that inner immune system for being so cooperative and helpful in responding the way that your immune system has responded.
Kay: Oh, yes, I'm pleased. If I can ever . . . if you give me a reference, I'll be more than happy . . .
Kelly: Well, that's really good. There are millions of people who suffer from allergies in this country alone, and if this technique can help a large percentage of them then that would certainly be a revolution.
Kay: Well, yes it would.
Kelly: And that's what we're wanting to study. That's why we wanted to do this with you, and tape it, and then do a follow-up interview to make sure that it's working the way we'd hoped it would work with you. And that's really, really good. The thing, of course, to realize, is that with a situation like this, once you recode the response to those particles, basically it will stay that way unless something were to change it. So you're more or less "home free." And that the technique is simple enough— of visualizing—that if anything should ever come up again, you can redo it in the same way.
Kay: Yes. Now does that extend to other things, I wonder? Well, not for me. You know, like my mother . . . I wrote a letter . . . she's got an appointment Wednesday. I think she's depressed. I don't imagine it works for that.
Kelly: Well, the issue with an allergic response is a very, very specific type of response.
Kay: That's a whole different thing, isn't it?
Kelly: It's a whole different thing. Certainly the ability to visualize, the ability to communicate internally are two aspects of the process that would contribute to, in some cases, with someone who is feeling bad, in order to help create the situation where they feel better. Although it's so different with each person that I don't have a lot I could say.
Kay: Yes, she must have an open mind.
Kelly: Yeah, that's . . .
Kay: may be lacking in that field . . .
Kelly: That's, well, I won't touch that one.
Kay: It was my opinion.
Kelly: Right! Right Kay. Well, thank you so much. Dr. Mundy and I both appreciate your willingness to let us tape this, and I'm taping it right on the tape now, and I'm not sure how it will come out sound-wise, but we're going to work with that, and we're hoping that we can share this process with other doctors, basically so that they can have an idea of an entire case, and what seemed to work.
Kay: All right. It's a wonderful thing you're doing there.
Kelly: Yes. Is it okay if we share this tape with some other doctors?
Kay: Put it on Channel 4 if you want!
Kelly: (Laughter) Well Phil Witt would appreciate that. (He is the news anchor at WDAF TV in Kansas City.)
Kay: No, I'd be more than happy to share my experience.
Kay: I'm sure that anybody that suffers like I had would stand on their head in the middle of the street if they thought it would help.
Kelly: Um hum. Okay, well that's so nice, Kay. And I'll be talking with you in the future.
Kay: Okay, thanks for calling.
Kay: Okay, bye.